User avatar
McTrinsic

Posted Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:06 am

Hi,

these things are important and will be required later. I am still looking at hardware-things only.

You have three SCSI-devices in your SCSI-chain:
- Zip
- HDD
- Controller (590).

For each please check in hardware:
- ID and
- termination.

And then please show the order in which they are connected.

I assume it is the following:
HDD internal - 590 - Zip drive

Currently I wouldn’t be surprised of the 590 was terminated internally because so far you had a chain of two devices that needed by terminated on both ends of the chain.

The 590 has a jumper block externally besides the SCSI connector, I assume it can be used to at least configure the ID.

User avatar
walldog

Posted Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:04 pm

McTrinsic wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:06 am
Hi,

these things are important and will be required later. I am still looking at hardware-things only.

You have three SCSI-devices in your SCSI-chain:
- Zip
- HDD
- Controller (590).

For each please check in hardware:
- ID and
- termination.

And then please show the order in which they are connected.

I assume it is the following:
HDD internal - 590 - Zip drive

Currently I wouldn’t be surprised of the 590 was terminated internally because so far you had a chain of two devices that needed by terminated on both ends of the chain.

The 590 has a jumper block externally besides the SCSI connector, I assume it can be used to at least configure the ID.

Thanks for your patience McTrinsic.. I dont think I am or can adequately answer the questions. Here what I can determine

1. Yes 3 devices in chain.
- Order 1. A590 installed in side of A500 2. 100MB Quantum HDD install in in internal SCSI port of A590 as boot drive 3. IOMEGA ZIP Drive hooked to external SCSI port of A590

2. My instinct makes me thing this is hardware also. I am probably have a device ID set wrong or conflict but not sure how to tell. I removed the A590 today. I dont see any jumper that indicates ID number of the drive etc. Maybe just controled in Startup? or mountlist? Dont know. The hard drive itself I cant see an ID jumper on it. There is a small white open jumper on the front of drive but I am thinking this is just for an LED or something but not sure. The external jumper settings consist of 1. Autoboot or not 2. Allow multiple devices on SCSI address. 3. is wait to spin up drive.

3. I tried turing on jumper 2 but then it will not boot. So only jumper 1 to autoboot is enabled.

4. I have no idea how to configure the ID on the A590 at end of day nor can I tell if its terminated.

Anyway having a good time learning about mountlists etc. :)

User avatar
McTrinsic

Posted Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:42 am

Hi,

I just checked the amiga.resource.cx site for infos regarding the A590.
Unfortunately, I have no idea to tell what SCSI-ID the A590 has.

It seems the A590 is not terminated, which is good. From the manual I would say that usually you shuld have all jumpers set to "on" as they were originally. Jumper 2 could be set to "off". Dont mess with jumper 4, the manual says :).

Please try to look up a manual for the HDD. It could be important to see what SCSI-ID that one has. Try setting the ZIP-ID to maybe 4.

HDD and ZIP need be terminated. I don't know how to do that with these devices.

User avatar
McTrinsic

Posted Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:46 am

Oh and by the way.

Please try SCSIQuery with everything attached:

http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/SCSIQuery

... and post the results here.

User avatar
walldog

Posted Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:46 pm

McTrinsic wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:46 am
Oh and by the way.

Please try SCSIQuery with everything attached:

http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/SCSIQuery

... and post the results here.
All over the place with this today.
1. Found manual online for my hard drive. Removed A590, drive entire deal and found jumpers on bottom of actual drive. See below.. Doesnt paste very good in this post but short story is I have EP on to enable parity check (was already set that way) and for the heck of it I changed the drive ID to 4 instead of previous 0.. It now shows up that way in SysInfo, SCSIDevs etc. So Hard drive is ID 4 and ZIP is ID 5.

2. Termination. If I read correct the termination on this hard drive is pre-set at factory with resistors. I think they have been removed. So ok maybe thats the issue. So... I had a quantum 50mb drive that was original in the A590 until I put in a 100mb (need that extra 50 MEG!) and it appears to have the line of resisters installed. So I put the old drive back in. Booted etc. Exact same results. I also experimented with termination on and off on the ZIP. No luck. So right now the 100mb drive is back in the A590 with what I assume is non-terminated set at device 4 with the ZIP drive set FOR termination device 5.

3. When I mount the ZIP0: I can get it actuate and click around. It sees it in SysInfo. SCSI Devs sees it as well and those are results are unchanged from my earlier post except now the main hard drive ID4 due to me changing the jumpers.

So had an interesting exercise today but no real progress other than changing the jumpers on the drive for ID4.

My earlier SCSIDevs results as reminder. Only change is ID for quantum is now 4.

ID Device REM Vendor Product-String REV
0 Disk N Quantum LP105S 910109405 301
5 Disk Y IOMEGA ZIP 100 D.09

ID UNIT SIZE FS Partition PRI BUFFS
0 DH0 100M FFS Boot 1 200

5 ***SCSI READ ERROR*****

Terminating Resistors
---------------------
At the factory, Quantum installs three resistor networks in socket on
the drive PCB (Printed Circuit Board) to terminate the SCSI bus.
Only the first device - usually the host - and the last device an a
SCSI bus should contain terminating resistors. When installing the
ProDrive LPS 120/240S hard disk drive in any other position on the
SCSI bus, remove the terminating resistors.


Jumper A1
---------
+--+--+--+ +--+--+--+
|SS|EP|WS| |A0|A1|A2| Drives: LPS 120/240
+--+--+--+ +--+--+--+
J2 SCSI ID
-----------
+----------+-----------------------+
| SCSI ID | Jumpers |
| | A2 | A1 | A0 |
+----------+-------+-------+-------+
| 0 | OPEN | OPEN | OPEN |
| 1 | OPEN | OPEN | CLOSED|
| 2 | OPEN | CLOSED| OPEN |
| 3 | OPEN | CLOSED| CLOSED|
| 4 | CLOSED| OPEN | OPEN |
| 5 | CLOSED| OPEN | CLOSED|
| 6 | CLOSED| CLOSED| OPEN | Factory default
| 7 | CLOSED| CLOSED| CLOSED|
+----------+-------+-------+-------+
A2 (MSB), A1, or A0 determine the drive's binary SCSI address ID.

+--------------------+------+-------+--------------------------------
|Quantum Drive Type |Jumper|Setting|Description
+--------------------+------+-------+--------------------------------
|ProDrive 40/80/120/ | SS |OFF |Self Seek Test disabled
|170/210 | |ON |Self Seek Test enabled: For
|LPS 52/80/105 | | |factory use ONLY! The test is
| | | |indicated when power is applied
| | | |to the drive. The test will
| | | |continue until power is removed.
| | | |On most drives, the LED remains
| | | |on during the test (a flashing
| | | |LED indicates a drive error).
+--------------------+------+-------+--------------------------------
|ProDrive 40/80/120/ | EP |OFF |Parity Check disabled.
|170/210 | |ON |Parity checking enabled: The
|LPS 52/105/120/240 | | |drive generates parity
| | | |information and performs parity
| | | |checking of data across the SCSI
| | | |bus.
+--------------------+------+-------+--------------------------------
|ProDrive 120/170/210| WS |OFF |WaitSpin disabled. Drive motor
|LPS52/80/105/120/240| | |power is applied when system
| | | |power is applied to the
| | | |computer.
| | |ON |WaitSpin enabled. Drive motor
| | | |power is applied when the host
| | | |sends a START/STOP UNIT command.
| | | |This option permits unit power
| | | |sequencing so that the
| | | |computer's power supply in a
| | | |multidevice system is not over-
| | | |loaded.

User avatar
walldog

Posted Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:52 pm

walldog wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:46 pm
McTrinsic wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:46 am
Oh and by the way.

Please try SCSIQuery with everything attached:

http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/SCSIQuery

... and post the results here.
All over the place with this today.
1. Found manual online for my hard drive. Removed A590, drive entire deal and found jumpers on bottom of actual drive. See below.. Doesnt paste very good in this post but short story is I have EP on to enable parity check (was already set that way) and for the heck of it I changed the drive ID to 4 instead of previous 0.. It now shows up that way in SysInfo, SCSIDevs etc. So Hard drive is ID 4 and ZIP is ID 5.

2. Termination. If I read correct the termination on this hard drive is pre-set at factory with resistors. I think they have been removed. So ok maybe thats the issue. So... I had a quantum 50mb drive that was original in the A590 until I put in a 100mb (need that extra 50 MEG!) and it appears to have the line of resisters installed. So I put the old drive back in. Booted etc. Exact same results. I also experimented with termination on and off on the ZIP. No luck. So right now the 100mb drive is back in the A590 with what I assume is non-terminated set at device 4 with the ZIP drive set FOR termination device 5.

3. When I mount the ZIP0: I can get it actuate and click around. It sees it in SysInfo. SCSI Devs sees it as well and those are results are unchanged from my earlier post except now the main hard drive ID4 due to me changing the jumpers.

So had an interesting exercise today but no real progress other than changing the jumpers on the drive for ID4.

My earlier SCSIDevs results as reminder. Only change is ID for quantum is now 4.

ID Device REM Vendor Product-String REV
0 Disk N Quantum LP105S 910109405 301
5 Disk Y IOMEGA ZIP 100 D.09

ID UNIT SIZE FS Partition PRI BUFFS
0 DH0 100M FFS Boot 1 200

5 ***SCSI READ ERROR*****

Terminating Resistors
---------------------
At the factory, Quantum installs three resistor networks in socket on
the drive PCB (Printed Circuit Board) to terminate the SCSI bus.
Only the first device - usually the host - and the last device an a
SCSI bus should contain terminating resistors. When installing the
ProDrive LPS 120/240S hard disk drive in any other position on the
SCSI bus, remove the terminating resistors.


Jumper A1
---------
+--+--+--+ +--+--+--+
|SS|EP|WS| |A0|A1|A2| Drives: LPS 120/240
+--+--+--+ +--+--+--+
J2 SCSI ID
-----------
+----------+-----------------------+
| SCSI ID | Jumpers |
| | A2 | A1 | A0 |
+----------+-------+-------+-------+
| 0 | OPEN | OPEN | OPEN |
| 1 | OPEN | OPEN | CLOSED|
| 2 | OPEN | CLOSED| OPEN |
| 3 | OPEN | CLOSED| CLOSED|
| 4 | CLOSED| OPEN | OPEN |
| 5 | CLOSED| OPEN | CLOSED|
| 6 | CLOSED| CLOSED| OPEN | Factory default
| 7 | CLOSED| CLOSED| CLOSED|
+----------+-------+-------+-------+
A2 (MSB), A1, or A0 determine the drive's binary SCSI address ID.

+--------------------+------+-------+--------------------------------
|Quantum Drive Type |Jumper|Setting|Description
+--------------------+------+-------+--------------------------------
|ProDrive 40/80/120/ | SS |OFF |Self Seek Test disabled
|170/210 | |ON |Self Seek Test enabled: For
|LPS 52/80/105 | | |factory use ONLY! The test is
| | | |indicated when power is applied
| | | |to the drive. The test will
| | | |continue until power is removed.
| | | |On most drives, the LED remains
| | | |on during the test (a flashing
| | | |LED indicates a drive error).
+--------------------+------+-------+--------------------------------
|ProDrive 40/80/120/ | EP |OFF |Parity Check disabled.
|170/210 | |ON |Parity checking enabled: The
|LPS 52/105/120/240 | | |drive generates parity
| | | |information and performs parity
| | | |checking of data across the SCSI
| | | |bus.
+--------------------+------+-------+--------------------------------
|ProDrive 120/170/210| WS |OFF |WaitSpin disabled. Drive motor
|LPS52/80/105/120/240| | |power is applied when system
| | | |power is applied to the
| | | |computer.
| | |ON |WaitSpin enabled. Drive motor
| | | |power is applied when the host
| | | |sends a START/STOP UNIT command.
| | | |This option permits unit power
| | | |sequencing so that the
| | | |computer's power supply in a
| | | |multidevice system is not over-
| | | |loaded.
Just a quick note.. on SCSIDevs thing I notice is REM says N for the Quantum drive and Y for the ZIP. What does "REM" mean?

User avatar
McTrinsic

Posted Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:52 am

Rem probably means ‚removable‘.

Anyone have an idea which ID the A590 is?

And: you do need a terminated drive in the A590.

User avatar
walldog

Posted Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:55 pm

McTrinsic wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:52 am
Rem probably means ‚removable‘.

Anyone have an idea which ID the A590 is?

And: you do need a terminated drive in the A590.
First before we go any further I'd like to thank McTrinsic for being so helpful and answering the responses.. Also want to thank Intrinsic for allowing the trouble shoot on this great Amiga Love site. Heck this is part of the fun I think.

Obviously don't know root cause yet or we would have this solved but it seems 1 thing is a problem and that is termination. The drive I've been using is not terminated. So if we accomplish nothing else I have just learned about ID and drive termination importance. Now I am going through my other drives and seeing in entire new light. Months back I tried to make a scsi 4gb drive work and could get them to format but no auto boot. Well now I notice none terminated. That in itself could be the issue on that. Any way not to have scope creep..

So today I am throwing in the old Quantum 4gb drive I tried months back and through fresh re-format etc. This time WITH TERMINATION jumper set. If success maybe we can use this drive to continue on with ZIP.

Also, The ZIP drive is possible wasn't in good shape. I got a disk stuck and started making all kind of noise. So going to get one in a little better shape just to eliminate that possibility. Will update as I progress down these roads.

Your earlier question of what ID the A590 wasnt answered. Any clue out there on that one?

User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA
Website

Posted Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:38 pm

Dude I just hope you figure it out. My 2000/Zip is on the shelf at the moment but iirc it’s using the gvpscsi.device driver.

I might be able to check in a few days if you’re still having struggles.

User avatar
McTrinsic

Posted Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:04 am

Regarding termination.
It might look like a small detour but you could do it like that.

If your internal HDD is not terminated you could get an SCSI drive for e.g. 3 (or 5) devices. Then you can take an adaptor for internal fast-scsi (50 Pins) to exterbnal and get an external passive terminator.

Some years ago those were really cheap (cents to 1-2€) on eBay. Maybe that has changed. YMMV.

I would still think your drive is terminated, though. Was much more common back then. Some even had the resistors soldered in.





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