This is the place to discuss our glorious C64/128 machines and their very active scenes. Other C= 8-bits welcome, too!
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McTrinsic

by McTrinsic posted Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:05 am

The RetroTINK seems really attractive.

On the following forum, however, it sounds as if there are certain specific issues with the C64 to be sorted out so I am rather watching this for some time to come.

Please see the C64-related threads.

Cheers,
McT
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dansalvato
Boise, ID

by dansalvato posted Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:31 am

McTrinsic wrote:The RetroTINK seems really attractive.

On the following forum, however, it sounds as if there are certain specific issues with the C64 to be sorted out so I am rather watching this for some time to come.

Please see the C64-related threads.

Cheers,
McT

That's interesting - for what it's worth, all my capture screenshots in this thread are captured from a RetroTINK 2x, so I don't think I have the same issue that others are reporting.

3D-vice wrote:The Turbo Chameleon 64 cartridge from iComp supports the RR-net. I've put a RR-Net MK3 into my Chameleon and it fits and works flawlessly. Also, the Chameleon emulates the 1541 very well, like the 1541 Ultimate II.

I looked into the Turbo Chameleon, but my understanding was that even when used in cartridge mode, it operates as its own FPGA-based computer, right? I went with this build in the first place because I like using the original chips rather than FPGA equivalents. But I have no need to use the 1541 Ultimate and RR-Net simultaneously anyway, because the SD2IEC can load terminal software just fine.
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Bulletdust

by Bulletdust posted Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:35 am

I looked into the Turbo Chameleon, but my understanding was that even when used in cartridge mode, it operates as its own FPGA-based computer, right? I went with this build in the first place because I like using the original chips rather than FPGA equivalents. But I have no need to use the 1541 Ultimate and RR-Net simultaneously anyway, because the SD2IEC can load terminal software just fine.


Like the Vampire series of accelerators for the Amiga the Turbo Chameleon pretty much just uses the host machine for it's keyboard and some video/IO. However the device is perfectly happy running without a host machine to plug into at all.
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McTrinsic

by McTrinsic posted Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:28 am

Not fully correct.

I’ll quote the english wiki from icomp:

Since the Chameleon emulates an entire C-64, doesn't it degrade the C-64 into a fancy docking station?
No. A lot of the original ICs are still used in cartridge mode. Similar to the CMD SCPU, the Chameleon replaces the following things:
The CPU
The main memory (RAM)
BASIC and Kernal (ROM)
The MMU/Memory mapping (PLA)
Additionally, due to how the VGA output is produced, some tiny details related to the VICII memory fetching also need to be done by the Chameleon. Crucial for the chameleon to work is the CPU being replaced, because this is required to "know" the current state of the processor port ($00/$01). Replacing Memory is needed for the turbo mode to work (the internal memory can only be accessed at 1Mhz).
In particular the following things are not replaced: CIA, SID, VICII, plus most of the glue logic - which is the reason for why it is currently still more compatible in cartridge mode than standalone (where everything runs on the chameleon, of course)
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Bulletdust

by Bulletdust posted Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:44 pm

I did state that the Chameleon uses some of the C64's graphics/IO, as stated really no different to a Vampire.

Which is pretty much what you just stated also. ;)
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McTrinsic

by McTrinsic posted Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:03 am

I see the remaining active chips as a bit more than I/O.

The difference in our perception seems to be on the quantity of replaced chips. As the TC64 replaces (imho) the CPU (RAM doesn’t count for me ;) ) and _just_ as many other functions as required it’s much more of an expanded C64 than a replaced one for me. Again: for me.

In cartridge mode it’s much more like a modern SuperCPU for me.

If that already falls under your ‚like a Vampire‘ then we will have no chance to come to a common understanding :) .
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Bulletdust

by Bulletdust posted Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:32 am

Honestly, I think the TC is a little more involved than a SuperCPU. The SuperCPU couldn't run as a stand alone C64 and while the SuperCPU had it's own ram everything had to be written twice, once to the internal SuperCPU ram and once to the C64's internal ram as the VIC can't access ram outside of the C64 - Using the inbuilt RGB DSUB the TC can actually replace the VIC.

We've actually had a lot of reliability issues with the original TC at my local Commodore user group, most of them simply failed for no apparent reason! We tried everything to revive them, nothing worked. The biggest problem with accelerating a C64 is the fact that you're still tied to the same IO speed and everything is graphically tied to raster interrupts.

However like yourself I believe the TC is the closest modern implementation of the SuperCPU we have today.
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McTrinsic

by McTrinsic posted Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:16 pm

Well summarized!

I can subscribe to that point of view :) .
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dansalvato
Boise, ID

by dansalvato posted Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:17 am

Looks like I missed that paragraph of the wiki, so I'm glad to learn more about how the TC functions in cartridge mode. It definitely makes it sound more appealing to me and could be worth considering in the future depending on my needs. But for the time being, I'm happy with my current setup, as all I'm really missing out on is a turbo CPU.
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Bulletdust

by Bulletdust posted Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:37 am

I wish the C64 had a 'Tube' port like the BBC model B and the BBC Master that we could connect a Raspberry Pi to as an accelerated 6502 at ludicrous speed, those RPi's not only work 'really' well as a second processor, but they're really cheap!

Elite flies with the RPi connected to the Tube port of the Beeb as a second processor.

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