Amiga and Commodore news and topics not covered in the other forums
User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

by intric8 posted Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:44 am

Part of this nauseating continuous war seems to have suddenly changed somewhat. According to newly published documents, Cloanto has acquired the Amiga brand.

Prefacing Cloanto’s answer is the fact that on Friday, February 1, 2019, Plaintiff Amiga, Inc. transferred to C-A Acquisition Corp., which is under common ownership with Plaintiff Cloanto Corp., all worldwide rights, title and interest in and to all AMIGA-formative trademarks, including but not limited to the “Exclusive Licensed Marks” as that term is defined in the 2009 Settlement Agreement (the “Settlement Agreement”), and the “Boing Ball” design mark. Such rights include, but are not limited to, the rights to bring and defend actions, and to recover for past infringements or violations of rights and agreements, whether past, present, or future. See, Declaration of Gordon E. R. Troy, attached as Exhibit 1, and the trademark assignments executed by Amiga, Inc., attached as Exhibits 2 and 3, respectively. Consequently, Cloanto and C-A Acquisition Corp. are the owners of all the “Collateral,” as defined in the Settlement Agreement, as well as the AMIGA mark. As a “Successor/Acquirer” under the 2009 Settlement Agreement, Cloanto has executed the applicable version of Exhibit 3, attached hereto as Exhibit 4.


I'm no lawyer, but this will probably give Cloanto new strength in its battle against Hyperion and who is allowed to make/sell whatever. The Amiga community is still going to be tired and weary eyed looking at this garbage (not to mention the folks who actually made the Amiga and its software) but maybe this will lead to some sort of truce. Or something.

Probably not, though.
User avatar
terriblefire

by terriblefire posted Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:50 am

Its just an expensive game of one upmanship IMHO.
User avatar
Dynamic_Computing

by Dynamic_Computing posted Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:02 pm

I am all for someone strong owning the Amiga Copyrights. But the owners need to do something with them besides repackage the free WINUAE emulator with a horrible skin that nobody uses (Amiga Forever - I know lots who own it for the ROMS and Workbench, but I know of no one who uses the Cloanto interface)
I have to give Hyperion credit for actually accomplishing something with AmigaOS 3.1.4 - but I do have an issue that the guys who did the coding worked for free, and Hyperion is the one making the money. I understand it was a labor of love for the guys who updated it, but Hyperion is profiting from their labor.
I hope the settlement can be amicable. The worst situation is that Cloanto drives Hyperion out of business, and then sits on AmigaOS and does almost nothing like they have done for years.
The best situation would be that Hyperion pays a percentage in licensing fees for every copy sold to Cloanto and is allowed to continue to work on and distribute the software, and the actual people who updated the software get a cut of the profits, or at least be paid a stipend for their hard work.
It sounds crazy, but I think that Amiga is in the strongest position it has been in in over 20 years, with new hardware, games and software being released all the time. Nobody is going to become filthy rich off the Amiga, but it can be kept alive, and keep people making a living off of it.
Cloanto is involved with the C64 Mini, and maybe if they do things right they can license the AmigaOS software for a nice Amiga mini that can also be used as the real thing.
https://www.youtube.com/c/10minuteamigaretrocast
@10marc1 on Twitter
User avatar
Mr.Toast
Roseville, CA

by Mr.Toast posted Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:28 pm

Its overly simplistic for me to say, just freaking open source the thing-but if Cloanto can secure the rights and then gift it to the community-man, that would stop the frustrating bleed.

C'mon guys. Really.
User avatar
Zippy Zapp
CA, USA

by Zippy Zapp posted Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:08 am

Dynamic_Computing wrote:I am all for someone strong owning the Amiga Copyrights. But the owners need to do something with them besides repackage the free WINUAE emulator with a horrible skin that nobody uses (Amiga Forever - I know lots who own it for the ROMS and Workbench, but I know of no one who uses the Cloanto interface)

While I balked at the player previously and mostly just used the ROMs, Workbench files and the excellent Amiga Explorer more recently I gave their interface a shot. You know it is kind of ugly but Cloanto has always made their player program to look close to whatever the current version of Windows UI looks like. And that is what we see here, a version that has the minimalist stylings of Windows 10. That being said I have actually used it a bit more lately at work and it is not too bad. I like the feature of having the RP9 files and creating bundles of apps and configurations to use with it. The demo browser is not too bad either and makes for an easy way to quickly load up a demo. Of course I try to use real hardware when I can but at work it is not practical to have an A500 setup and ready to go.

I have to give Hyperion credit for actually accomplishing something with AmigaOS 3.1.4 - but I do have an issue that the guys who did the coding worked for free, and Hyperion is the one making the money. I understand it was a labor of love for the guys who updated it, but Hyperion is profiting from their labor.

That isn't cool and sounds a bit greedy.

I hope the settlement can be amicable. The worst situation is that Cloanto drives Hyperion out of business, and then sits on AmigaOS and does almost nothing like they have done for years.

I am not sure if I have an opinion. I have not dealt with Hyperion at all but I have been using Amiga Forever since the early days of the product and they are pretty dedicated to it so I don't think it would be a bad thing if everything was handled by a single company. This back and forth business does no good for the consumer.

Mr.Toast wrote:Its overly simplistic for me to say, just freaking open source the thing-but if Cloanto can secure the rights and then gift it to the community-man, that would stop the frustrating bleed.

I don't think that will happen as they are a business that needs to make money. You can't make money on milk if you give away the cow. But yeah, many of these things could be gifted just not sure how feasible it would be.
User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

by intric8 posted Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:44 am

Amiga Explorer


I love this program and was happy to pay for it. I really wish it was available for Mac OSX, but beggars can't be choosers I guess.

Amiga Forever


I have a copy of this program from 2-3 years ago, and it's OK. I don't regret that purchase.

KS/WB
And ya know, I'm fine with paying for ROMs, too. I don't have an EPROM burner and maybe I'd consider buying one some day. But until that day happens, I'm 100% fine paying for a product I consider to have value (like KS ROMs). But I'd rather just pay someone locally on Ebay or whatever who has the product and the skills. Give me a break.

And maybe I'm just being naive, but if the KS/WB code was released to the public, I believe Cloanto and Hyperion could continue to make money, and possibly such a move might convince them to innovate and expand their portfolios.

I also do believe both parties actually care about the Amiga deeply, yet both feel to be the rightful owners of something they did not create. As such, from an outsider's perspective, they often wind up looking a lot like patent trolls. Maybe it is not a fair assessment, but it's what it feels like to this outsider.
User avatar
terriblefire

by terriblefire posted Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:25 pm

Even if Cloanto do own Amiga Inc now... I dont see how it changes anything. Amiga Inc. gave Hyperion a license to do what they are doing... presumably for cash..
User avatar
Dynamic_Computing

by Dynamic_Computing posted Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:25 am

terriblefire wrote:Even if Cloanto do own Amiga Inc now... I dont see how it changes anything. Amiga Inc. gave Hyperion a license to do what they are doing... presumably for cash..

But that is the issue, the license is supposedly not for doing anything with 3.1, but for updating and selling 4.x. Cloanto says they had all the 3.x rights.
Now they have all the cards, since they own the company.
https://www.youtube.com/c/10minuteamigaretrocast
@10marc1 on Twitter
User avatar
terriblefire

by terriblefire posted Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:36 am

My understanding is that the wording is ambiguous enough that they can develop AmigaOS in any variety. I read it a while back. They can develop 3.x. I can’t see how Cloanto can revoke that license.

If they do I’ll boycott them for all time.
User avatar
Dynamic_Computing

by Dynamic_Computing posted Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:48 pm

terriblefire wrote:My understanding is that the wording is ambiguous enough that they can develop AmigaOS in any variety. I read it a while back. They can develop 3.x. I can’t see how Cloanto can revoke that license.

If they do I’ll boycott them for all time.

That is what I am worried about. If Cloanto acts like total jerks, they will alienate a large part of the small market that is left. Everyone will just decide to pirate AmigaOS 3.1.4 just to spite them.
Cloanto has to play their hand very carefully so as to not bite the hands that feed them.
https://www.youtube.com/c/10minuteamigaretrocast
@10marc1 on Twitter

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest