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intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:47 pm

Minor Update

I got the RTC working and have now got the clock set, which is nice to see when I boot up Workbench! The battery still has enough juice to let the RTC hold the time. That was a major relief as even though it is a coin battery, it is soldered to a clip on the motherboard. I really didn't want to have to change that at this stage - I call that a win!
rtc-set.jpg
I also learned today that the second switch on the back case is the Kickstart ROM switcher. It boots 1.3 by default, but after flipping it I can load KS 2.0 instead.
kstwopointoh.jpg
Finally, I found some software online that performs various hardware tests on the board. Most of the ones I tried seem buggy, but one in particular tested the Math Proc. It passed! And check out the results below. I wish I could calculate sine, or anything, in a fraction of that speed. <3
mathTest.jpg

User avatar
Bulletdust

Posted Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:06 am

It's interesting that you mention game compatibility issues, I haven't had to worry about that since WHDload.

Because of WHDload, everything gets done on my 68030 @ 40Mhz. 128MB fastram, IDE CF HDD equipped A1200 now - I just don't have the desk space for anything else and the A1200 pretty much covers everything.

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Shot97
Detroit, MI, USA

Posted Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:18 am

You should really give the program degrader a good try when dealing with the compatibility issues with PAL mode. The built in NTSC/PAL switcher does not actually restart the computer in that mode, it attempts to switch it at that very second, saving the boot time.

Degrader can sort of do that too, but I've also run into much trouble when doing that without resetting. Use the program and tell it to restart on the switch.

http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/Degrader

User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:47 am

Thanks for the tip, Shot! That's a great alternative.

Maybe it's a stubbornness thing on my part... I don't know. But when I put a disk in a drive and it doesn't load, my first inclination is to try the Amiga 1000 or 500. Both are completely base stock models running 1.3. If it doesn't work there, 99.9% of the time (in my personal experience) it's a PAL issue. When I use my NTSC 1200's boot options, switching to PAL never seems to help the situation. No idea why that's the case.

And look, I recognize I'm old fashioned and like floppies. I try so hard to get those to work first before I start to go down the "what if I try..." road.

Case in point: This Christmas I got the Sega collection (Shinobi, Outrun, Alien Syndrome, etc.). So stoked! I've always wanted Shinobi on the Amiga. Ran downstairs and popped it into the 2000. One of the intro screens froze. (Sounded cool, but oh well.) Then I put it in the base 1000. Same! Sinking feeling in the stomach at that point.

Then the Phoenix, which is PAL, fired it right up! Too bad the game's controls make me not want to play the game at all. But it does absolutely work 100%. Sucky, and I'm not entirely sure why, but quite a few arcade conversions out of the UK just weren't made to work on NTSC machines BITD. Those extra lines of video just screw everything up and usually just lock it up. Another example: I've owned Speedball 2 for, well, since the beginning. I'd heard so much about it. I was going to sell it later this year because I was convinced it was a bad disk. Loaded up but could never start a game. Until now - with the PAL machine. So annoying! But at least I can see some of these games now the way they came out originally - on disk - to get the original experience.

That all being said, I realize that some day I will have to remove some machines and make some space and whatnot. And at that point in time, WHDLoad will fix the vast majority of these loading issues for UK arcade ports. But I'm not there yet (probably won't be for a long time).

But I'll look into your software patch, too. Nice to have options. Thanks.

User avatar
Bulletdust

Posted Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:28 pm

Sadly it was determined at the time that the US was the smaller of the Commodore markets, so most software was coded to run correctly on PAL machines and NTSC became like a second class citizen. I found this when I first bought my C64 Breadbin, it was a pristine example, but I had no idea it was from the US. Upon firing it up I noticed it was an NTSC model, but didn't think much of it believing that it wouldn't have much of an impact on my experience - My was I wrong! So much software wouldn't work correctly! Both games and especially demo's.

In the end I pinched the PAL VIC-II off my spare C64 mobo as well as the PAL crystal, soldered the PAL crystal to my cleaner NTSC mobo, inserted the PAL VIC-II and joined the PAL trace and everything was good again.

Even if I was located in the US, I think I'd be running everything in PAL mode for best compatibility.

User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:38 pm

I dunno - I think I have to disagree. It totally depends on the software you're trying to run. If a game was made for NTSC, it'll likely play slower on a PAL machine. And a lot of times PAL software simply locks up on NTSC machines.

I think the best of both worlds (again, space and $$) is to have one of each. It's pretty easy to see which games are for which machine. If it was coded in the UK, more often than not it's going to be PAL (unless they made a special NTSC version, which did happen).

Most of my focus is pre-1992 games. So in that department I'm usually playing games made in the US that work perfectly. If it's an arcade port, most simply pale in comparison to the consoles of the same era, and I haven't spent a lot of focus there. A single-button joystick keeps things pretty limited in that department. Street Fighter? Mortal Kombat? Oh man... it's silly, you know? Pull out your SNES/Genesis and don't even think about an Amiga version there.

If I could only have one, I'd probably stick with what I know was made for the region I live in. And if I were from Europe I'd absolutely buy and use a PAL machine (possibly exclusively). But I have to tell you - it's fascinating now that I have both. I can see the timing differences first hand. I can see how some of the graphics get stretched - even using CRTs. It's an amazing thing to witness these various differences in the hardware.

But yeah - if I were you Bulletdust (you're in the UK, right?) I'd stick with what you have, too. Makes sense as you're probably playing games from there. I'm stuck in Electronic Arts, Lucasfilm/Arts, Activision, SSI, Epyx, Broderbund, MicroProse, Origin, Raven Software, Westwood Studios, Binary Systems... But man, when I'm needing some Sensible Software, Bullfrog, Bitmap Bros, Psynogsis... man, I'm so lucky I have a machine I can fire things up on now and go for it! Best of both worlds.

User avatar
themmc

Posted Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:52 pm

Thrilled you've got an A1000 Phoenix MB here in Seattle. I'm also originally from Adelaide and moved to Seattle a number of years ago. Had a lot of friends with Phoenix Amiga stuff - I had the A500 CHIP memory upgrade that went in the bottom slot with the RTC (http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/am501). I remember going to Phoenix (short car drive away) to pick it up and seeing all kinds of Amigas in different states of being upgraded/fixed. I also remember taking my poor, sick, A500 there when the power connector developed a fault.

I also still remember the first time I used an A1000 - friend of my mum's had one (don't recall why) - it was before my A500 and got to play with it in her study while my mum and she had coffee. I've still got a number of floppies in a lovely wooden case I made at school (we had wood shop at high school) as well as the original 1984 Byte magazine with the A1000 in it.

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intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:21 pm

@themmc - thanks for the kind words.

Are you still active in the Amiga/retro scene? Are you going to VCF Seattle in February?

We're slowly building a small Seattle posse. mattsoft, robdaemon, yours truly, you!, and several others not too far away. I really do think a meetup in 2018 would be cool at some stage.

User avatar
Bulletdust

Posted Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:39 pm

But yeah - if I were you Bulletdust (you're in the UK, right?) I'd stick with what you have, too.
Nah, I live in Australia, Commodore machines were incredibly popular here and sold literally everywhere in the 80s/90s - In comparison the venerable Wintel PC was nothing.

I think if you looked it up, you'll find more titles available for PAL than NTSC. Obviously if you like the nostalgia of collecting boxed titles and you're shopping within your geographic location than it's important that you stick with the analogue TV format of your region. But otherwise, if you're using WHDload for example, PAL is the way to go as there's just more titles available.

Speedball 2's an awesome game, I fire it up on my A1200 all the time! None of my games even have an issue with the 68030 accelerator.

Here's my gaming interface of choice:

Image

User avatar
themmc

Posted Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:45 pm

intric8 wrote:@themmc - thanks for the kind words.

Are you still active in the Amiga/retro scene? Are you going to VCF Seattle in February?
No, I sold/gave away (cripes, don't remember) my A500 a LONG time ago. But I love old computers / computer history for a bunch of reasons. So, I read a little occasionally.
We're slowly building a small Seattle posse. mattsoft, robdaemon, yours truly, you!, and several others not too far away. I really do think a meetup in 2018 would be cool at some stage.
Happy to do so - not sure I'll add much.





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