User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:39 am

@McTrinsic, ye Lord of the Phoenix :)

I know you worked on getting your machine right for over 14 years, so this question will likely be hard to answer for you. But I thought I'd try.

Last weekend I wanted to move some files over from my PC to my Phoenix using my tried and true process of a null modem cable and Amiga Explorer. But for some bizarre reason I don't currently understand, the transfer would begin and fail in exactly the same spot every single time.

I could move 8KB of data over but then it would just stop. The data transfer was always incomplete.

I was going to try and flip a jumper later this week to see if the weird internal serial port has the same result. I'm actually hoping it does, because if that port works but the one on the back of the case doesn't, that would suck. But part of me wonders if the serial port - just like the internal SCSI - is a little sub-par? Like, maybe it requires a slower baud rate? I've been doing the 'default' transfer of 19200. FWIW when I use my serial port with a WiFi modem it seems fine. In those cases, I'm always chugging around 9600.

In any case, curious if you ever experienced issues with transfers via your own serial port?

User avatar
Shot97
Detroit, MI, USA

Posted Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:21 pm

Can you attempt to pinpoint the exact file that's causing the problem? The way you describe it, I think it might be a file issue rather than a transfer issue. When I had my hard drive issues and went to see how much of it I could transfer over I ended up getting 99% of the information off the hard drive and transfered over. However; I did have a couple issues while transfering. Much like you describe I would get an error at the exact same point... If using Amiga explorer and just throwing everything from the Amiga to PC, it should be easy to track down the exact file that is causing the issue. Go to your PC and see what files it transfered over, I think Amiga Explorer should copy them alphabetically.

Then forget about starting it over from scratch, try the file that failed only. It's probably still failing. Might simply be a messed up file. You can try altering the protections on it but I doubt it will work. My hard drive wouldn't let me copy over a few .adf files I had sitting around on my Amiga drive, so I just took note of the games and downloaded them again or used my previous backup.

With this file in mind, instead of throwing it all over from Amiga to PC from scratch, just start where you left off, ignoring the file that failed. See how far it gets this time. If it continues to fail the drive might be showing early signs of death, or it could indeed be a serial port issue. But if it goes just fine after that, then it was a file issue. There are two programs I use to save chip memory when I do transfers. One to add/subtrack bitplanes, making the screen mono. Using this program got rid of any of my very minor issues I would occasionally have when transferring files via null modem cable. The other program I use also gets rid of bitplanes as well as cuts off the resolution, making only a portion of the top of the screen visible. I use this pretty much only when copying my hard drive to PC, as I know it's going to take forever and I won't be using the Amiga. This will also guarantee no serial port issues as well as make the transfer faster.

-Edit- I misread your post as transfering from Amiga to PC when you're actually transfering from PC to Amiga. So it likely would be a serial port issue, unless again there's something wrong with that exact file. Could try to get another version of it and try again. Search the fish disks for bitplane programs and give that a try I would recommend. The serial port on the original Amiga's had known issues, I've occasionally run into issues due to my 8 color Workbench setup on my 500. Most of the time it will handle small files just fine... But I've learned to never transfer files over without taking down the bitplanes. I can usually do fine with running disk master at the same time, but too much multitasking eats up the memory, and I've found chip memory to be essential with serial transfers.

User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:35 pm

Can you attempt to pinpoint the exact file that's causing the problem? The way you describe it, I think it might be a file issue rather than a transfer issue.


I see you mis-read my initial post. I do appreciate you trying to help, though, Shot.

Ironically, the file in question is actually the file that Amiga Exporer transfers over during install/setup. When you install this file (from the PC to Amiga) it puts this Amiga program on your Amiga to help the transfers in the process. I've never had a null-modem cable transfer issue before, hence my confusion. Plus the Phoenix is using a 1MB Agnus so I think Chip should be solid.

User avatar
Shot97
Detroit, MI, USA

Posted Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:44 pm

Well, it won't help you in the long run if there's a real problem, but you can at least get Amiga explorer over there from your 2000 with a floppy disk, bypass its self install phase. Unless McTrinsic has an easy answer for you, I'd still say getting a bitplane reduction program is the best place to start. There are serial port issues, without a doubt for all early Amiga's, you may not personally have experienced them when transfering using your 2000, I have using my 500 which has 1mb of chip RAM. Using said program fixes issues, worth a look.
Last edited by Shot97 on Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:47 pm

Well, it won't help you in the long run if there's a real problem, but you can at least get Amiga explorer over there from your 2000 with a floppy disk, bypass its self install phase.
That's true. I actually did put the software on a disk and was contemplating exactly that approach, but then I started to wonder if something "fancy" happened during the install process that I was missing. Probably not - I should just do that most likely and go from there.

The bit-plane reduction idea is fascinating to me.

User avatar
Shot97
Detroit, MI, USA

Posted Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:52 pm

I also use a substitute serial.device with Amiga Explorer. You can find it on Aminet, it's called Baudbandit.device. It just tends to work better than the one that shipped with the Amiga. You've got to go into the settings for AExplorer on the Amiga end, and then point to the substitute serial device. You can't just replace serial.device with baudbandit by renaming it (I've tried). The program has to have built in support for alternate serial devices, although there is a hot fix command from the shell you can run to patch it for programs that don't have support for that. But thankfully AExplorer does.

User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:14 pm

Oh interesting. I'll hunt that down! Thanks, man

User avatar
Shot97
Detroit, MI, USA

Posted Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:40 pm

That might be the best place to start, actually. Again; unless there's some trick with the Phoenix board itself that's causing the problems. I'd start with replacing the serial device with baudbandit. Some people claim that it's so good that with baudbandit you can go ahead and up the transmission to 36k on old Amiga's, not by itself on my end... Although I don't think I've tried 36k since I've started using those bitplane programs... That might be worth trying the next time I do a full copy.

But I've just kept with 19k with RTS/CTS handshaking (you did make sure the handshaking method matched on the Amiga and the PC I hope) using Baudbandit and Amiga Explorer. Give that a try, then try out the bitplane programs. If you can't find them let me know and I'll drag them off my Amiga. Even if baudbandit does the trick those programs might still prove useful and at the very least save some time.

User avatar
Zippy Zapp
CA, USA

Posted Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:23 pm

Just my 2 cents, for what is worth, because you guys have way more experience using the Serial transfer method then I do. But when I was using that method frequently I found that sometimes I could not transfer reliably with certain disk images or files at 19.2k and I had to step it down to 9600 baud. I am not certain why because most of the time 19.2 worked perfectly but some files just would not transfer at that speed while others, which were more or less same size, would. I never did try the baud bandit device though. This was on an A500.

User avatar
McTrinsic

Posted Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:53 pm

Hi,
I heard my name so I am summoned here ;) .
Things that come to my mind when reading all this.
- try the same transfer on another machine to check for issues with the PC
- try NComm or another package that would display handshake or transfer errors
- try sending the file not with the original program from PC but with another terminal program
- if you transfer directly to disk please check mask and max transfer
- check the stack of the receiving program on the Amiga
- try an alternative serial device

If you really think it's a hardware issue try swapping or exchanging the CIAs.

I only used serial transfers with either my trusty old VarIO or a Hypercom that at one time I had at a clockport adapter for the 68k.

Good luck

PS isn't it time for a 'Part 3' in your series???





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